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Conjugal love not erotic love

 
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:06 am    Post subject: Conjugal love not erotic love Reply with quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by smaranam
Haribol PrabhuJi,

Just one thing - Shrila PrabhupAd always translated mAdhurya ras and kAntA-prema as conjugal love. Which makes a lot of sense - kAnta or kAntA means spouse. So divine conjugal love is best translation in my opinion. But you have been translating kAntA-prem as divine erotic love everywhere.

Dandavat

These argumentation, based on the translations of the founder of Iskcon, don’t take in consideration that madhurya rasa is of two kinds:
In svakya bhav a – which is the conjugal love like that of the queens of Dwarka.
In parakya bhava – which is the erotic (mistress) love of the married (but not with Krishna) young girls of Vrindavan for Krishna.

The love of the queens of Dwarka is parted between the love for their children and the love for Krishna. The love of the gopis is extramarital, all exclusive, and mad (even if hidden they all are His wives).

Srimad Bhagavatam10.33.39 states:

vikrīḍitaḿ vraja-vadhūbhir idaḿ ca viṣṇoḥ
śraddhānvito 'nuśṛṇuyād atha varṇayed yaḥ
bhaktiḿ parāḿ bhagavati pratilabhya kāmaḿ
hṛd-rogam āśv apahinoty acireṇa dhīraḥ


Anyone who faithfully hears or describes - yaḥ śraddhā-anvitaḥ anuśṛṇuyāt atha varṇayet
The pastimes of the (young) married women of this Vraja with Vishnu- vikrīḍitam vraja vadhūbhir idam ca viṣṇoḥ
Quickly drives away the disease of (material) lust in the heart - aśu apahinoti rogam kāmam hṛt
(becomes) without delay a self-controlled person - acireṇa dhīraḥ
And attains Supreme Bhakti for the Supreme Lord - pratilabhya parām bhaktim bhagavati

Even at the time of the first followers of Sri Caitanya in Vrindavan (the famous six Gosvamis) parakya bhava was hardly accepted by the Vaishnavas.
And even nowadays the Babajis of Vrindavan, which are most closely to the Vrindavan (not Navadwip) Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition, they may pretend they would accepted it, but they don’t do it, and condemn it, in the form of Gopi Bhava, and replace it by manjari bhava, whose main loving mood is intimate servitude, dasya bhava, for Radha, which makes it madhur because the manjaris witness the madhur vilasa keli of Radha Krishna,
and having empathy with Radha, feel what she feels in those vilasa keli, and even exhibit the same marks of love as Radha.

Important is to understand that here Ramanada Raya speaks about the erotic love of the gopis, not of the conjugal love of the queens of Dwarka.

The fact that this erotic divine love is sublime and the most difficult to attain even by Sri Lakshmi, one should understand it from the tenth Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam 10.47.60:

nāyaḿ śriyo 'ńga u nitānta-rateḥ prasādaḥ
svar-yoṣitāḿ nalina-gandha-rucāḿ kuto 'nyāḥ
rāsotsave 'sya bhuja-daṇḍa-gṛhīta-kaṇṭha-
labdhāśiṣāḿ ya udagād vraja-sundarīṇām


Oh , not even the goddess of Fortune (the consort of the Supreme Lord Narayan in the spiritual world Vaikuntha) - u na ayam śriyah
which has a lot of divine love -nitānta-rateh
and even the women from paradise (heavenly planets of the material world - svar-loka)
which have the flavor of the lotus flowers -svar-yoşitām nalina-gandha and shine- rucām
didn’t get the mercy - prasādam that was manifested by This (Krişna) -udagād asya
in the festival of loving tastes - rāsa-utsave
(when) His arms embraced the necks- bhuja-danda-grihīta-kantha
of the lovers of Vrindavan - vraja-vallabhīnām
what to say about the other (women)? - kuto 'nyām

In Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 7.1.31 Nārada Muni displays different types of meditation on the Supreme Lord, which exemplifies the importance of one’s state of mind, attained by one’s way of thinking, feeling and acting (by his speech or else), where the erotic love of the gopis is mentioned in the form of their divine lusty desires for Krishna :

gopyaḥ kāmād bhayāt kaḿso
dveṣāc caidyādayo nṛpāḥ
sambandhād vṛṣṇayaḥ snehād
yūyaḿ bhaktyā vayaḿ vibho


The gopis (attained) oh, the Great One (Krishna) out of lusty desires - gopyaḥ vibho kāmāt
Kaḿsa out of fear, Śiśupāla and other kings out of envy - kaḿsaḥ bhayāt caidya-ādayaḥ nṛpāḥ dveṣāt
the Vṛṣṇis out of their relations (with Him) - vṛṣṇayaḥ sambandhāt
you (Pandavas) out of affection - yūyam snehāt
we by devotional service - vayam bhaktyā

Dandavat
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anadi
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Originally Posted by smaranam
Quote:
Haribol PrabhuJi,

The word erotic focuses on the least important for a casual listener.

Dandavat,
it may be so, but I don't write for such a reader;
for me the word erotic is very important, when is linked with Krishna and sakhi bhava;
sakhi bhava - which is not accepted for the Gaudiya Vaishanva Sadhakas even by the Babajis of Vrindavan.
In Nabadwip is different.


Originally Posted by smaranam
Quote:
Also, in this last post, again your translation for KRushNa's word "sneha" as erotic love, i feel is inappropriate. Svayam BhagavAn has used a beautiful word - sneha. It means a deeply affectionate bond. Sure the bond is of madhur ras. Yet, the words priti and sneha in the scriptures are most pavitra words, have to be carefully protected in my humble opinion so the divine treasure is not taken in a mundane way. PrabhupAd cautioned about this too.

The sneha of the gopis, is erotic love, based on divine (for they are directed to Krishna) lusty desires, see Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 7.1.31 posted in the previous post.
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